captioning sponsored by newshour pductions, llc >> woodruff: good eveng. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: e president trump visitthe southern border, wlook at the potential risks of shutting dowt access between u.s. and mexico. then, 25 years after the rwandan genocide, three survivors use photography to find reconciliation with the perpetrators of ss killings. >> your photography can help you ll your story to other people, and then they can learn about you. that can be a medicine. that can heal someone.dr >> wf: and, it's friday. mark shields and david brooksyz anthe president's threat to shut down the u.s. southern border, the last on the mueller report, and how joe biden is handling "personal space." all that and more, on tonight's

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>> woodruff: down on the border, president trump is in southern california this evening, touring the boundary with mexico, and talking tough about migrants. but he is now playing downny plans to cut off cross-border traffic. amna nawaz has our report. >> nawaz: as he left the white house this morning... >> i never change my mind all. might shut it down. >> nawaz: ...denials from president trump that he had backed down, aft threatening to close the border wi mexico. this week, he said he'd reassess in a year, and again today hailed mexico's efforts to stop migrts at their southern tborder, before making ye another threat. >> mexico has been absolutely terrific for the last four days. they're apprehending everybody. yesterday, they apprehended 1,400 people, the day before it was a 1,000. they apprehend people at their southern border, where ey don't have to walk through, that's a big home run. mexico understands that we're going to close the border or i'm going to tariff the cars.

>> nawaz: the president then flew to southern california, met by protestors and by homeland security secretary kristjen nielsen, capping off her three- day border tour. ureir meetings with law enforcement and f a newly-built wall replacing older barriers come. as attorneys general f 20 states filed suit to stop thtrump administration fro diverting other federal money to fund borr wall construction. >> president trump's policies exacerbate any issues at our border. since taking office, he has created chaos for immigrants seeking safety and security. president trump is not above the law and we will continue to hold him accountable. i time for us to make it clear that if you want to build something using tax payer money, you have get permission the way previous presidents have always done. it's not just the law, it's then constitu >> nawaz: house democrats said yesterday they, too, will sue. in a statement, speaker nancy pelosi said the administration's move violates congress' right to control spending because it "was not authorized by constitutional or statutory authority." president trump, meanwhile,

coirmed today he's withdra ron vitiello's nomination to lead ice, the immigration and customs enforcement agency. >> ron is a good man, but we're going in a tougher direction. at a roundtable this afternoon in calexico, california, thepr ident laid out what that "tougher direction" might mean. >> the system is full. we can't take you anymore. whether it's asylum, whether it's anything you want, imlegal gration, we can't take you anymore awaz: this, as the back- continues. after moving hundreds of agents from these ports of entry to help manage the families and thildren entering the u.s. trump administration has now created hours-long waits across the border. for the pbs newshour, i'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, the u.s. job market bounced back in march. the labor department reports employers added a net 196,000 jobs, up sharply from february. meanwhile, the unemployment rate held steady at 3.8%.

wage growth slowed slightly, with a 3.2% increase from a year ago. we will take a closer look at the numbers after the news summary. former vice president joe biden today defended his displays of affection toward women, but tried to defuse the criticism he has been taking.wo at least four men have said biden made them uncomfortable with hugs and other physical contact. at a washington speech, he joked about hugging the man who leads the electrical workers union, saying he had "permission." later, he spoke in a mor serious vein. >> i'm sorry i didn't understand more. i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sorry for anything that i have every done. i have never been disrespectful intentionally to a man or a man.'s thot the reputation i had since i was in high school, for god's sake. >> woodruff: at the same tim biden acknowledged he will have to change the way he campaigns.l and, he said hs to make a

final decision about running for president "relatively soon." british prime minister theresa may has requested a further delay in her country's departure from the european union. her request today could buy more time to fashion a deal that will pass parliament. in a letter to european council president donald tusk, may asked to push the date back to june 30. britain is currently set to leave the e.u. on april 12, with no deal. in saudi arabia, human rights groups and activists say authorities have detained eight peop who have supported jail women rights activists. two are u.s.-saudi dual citizens. most are writers and advocates. these are the first such arrests aunce the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi by government agents, last october. a japanese spacecraft has successfully blasted a crater into the surface of an asteroid. japan's space agency tweeted

images today of the asteroid and the area that was targeted today. it should clear the way for collecting underground samples and returning them to earth. the goal is to learn more about the origins of earth and the solar system d, on wall street, the dow jones industrial average gained 40 points to close at 26,425. the nasdaq rose nearly 47 points, and the s&p 500 added 13. still to come on the newshour: we break down the latest numbers on jobs and wages. leuse judiciary committee chairman jerry non plans to subpoena the mueller report. e healing power of photography, 25 years after the rwandan genocide. and, much more. >> woodruff: after a worrisome

jobs report in february, the labor market rebounded last month. the unemployment rate is near a 50-year low, and the u.s. economy has created jobs for more than eight years, or 100 months-plus straight. but president trump is making it clear he believes the federal reserve is holding the economy back from even stronger growth. william brangham gets a look at the wider picture. >> brangham: job growth is averaging around 180,000 jobs a month for the first quarter of this year. that's a solid number by most measures, but it's also abou 20% lower than a year ago. l e president touted the economy's overalrformance this morning. but even as he does that, he's heso stepping up his public campaign againsted and its chairman, jay powell. it should be said that trump selected powell for the job. let's dive into all of this with david wessel, who joins us again from the brookings institution, where he heads the hutchins center on fiscal and monetary licy.

david, let's talk a bit about the jobs numbers first. they seem like pretty good jobs numbers. what is your take on this report? >> right. it was a big sigh of relief because the february job numbers were frighteningly poor. this suggests, thougt the economy, while doing well is slowing. manufacturing jobs fewer, temporary help jobs fewer of them, for the blast two or three months, so there is sign the economy is leveling of, but we still have 3.8% unemployment and htrprisingly little wage growth considering how tihe labor market is. >> as i mentioned before, the fed is very much on themi president'nd. yesterday he said he planned to nomina herman cain for the federal reserve board. you may remember cain as the rmer c.e.o. of godfather's pizza o ran for president in 2012 running on a flat tax and ended as allegations o sexual harassment came out about him.

he plans to nominate stphen moore, who has been a vocal critic of the fedpr. ident trump this morning took another shot at the fed both for is stance on interest rates and the way it has been shrinking the huge portfolio of bonds it bought during the financial crisis, a licy known as quantitative easing. >> well, i personally think the feds should drop rates. i think they likely slowed us down. there's no inflation. i would say, in terms of quantitative tightening, it should be quaitative easing, you would see a rocket ship. despite that, we're doing very well. >> davie wessel, with these two nominees and the president's ongoing critism of the federal reserve, it certainly seems he wants the fed to act more as a partisan actor rather thits traditional independent role. >> well, i think what the president is saying the he nts people on the fed who will cut interest rates because he thinks

they should. these two men are par have both been involved in the f partisay. steve moore is campaign contributor for growth he organized. herman cain ran for president. i think he wants loyalists. he doents seem to feel he iticalto respect the pol independence of the fed, he wants people in this job to do what he wants >> as a devil's advocate, doesn't every present want aec healthomy? how much difference does it make if the fed becomes more partisan >> i think i general presidents want people who are confident and will do the right thing. they tend to appoint peoe more sympathetic to him. president obama tended to appoint democrats, for instance. but i think in this case, these two men aren't, fraly, serious think,. they're more tv talk show commentators on the economy and i think that risks undermining

d.e credibility of the it's quite a contrast to the president's previous appointments to the fed who are ople who were comp at the present time and could have been appointed by any republican president. >> do you think those two men will make it under the fed and, longer term, what do you think that does to fed's reputation? >> i don't know if they will make it on to the fed. the president seems determined to nominate them. he announced their names even before formally cleared by the white house background. so far theepublicans have been willing to accept even unconventional nominees to haver thsident. we'll see if this is one step too far. i don't think they will change policy at the fed, there will be two snrois th wilderness. the fed is a very strong institution, and ther there are people, appointed by the president and federal rserve banks across the country, 12, who will be a balance. but i think it undermines the

fed's credibility as politically insulated organization o technocrats who do what they think is right for t, econo who sometimes make mistakes but are motivated by the economy anr woless about what the president wants them to do. >> davie wessel of the hutchins center. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> woodruff: it has beenwo weeks since special counsel robert mueller concluded his investigation into president trump's 2016 campaign and russian interference. only attorney general william barr's summary of the nearly 400-page report has been released publicly. mr. barr says he intends to release a redacted version sometime this month. but, that would change if the house judiciary committee got its way. ats on the committee voted this week to authorize subpoenas for the full report. the chairman of judiciary

committee, representative nerry nadler oyork, joins me now. chairman nadler, welcome to the "newshour". thank you for joining us. >> good evening. >> woouff: before i ask you about the subpoena authorization, i want to ask you, what do you expect to receive from the attorney general? >> what we expect to receive is the entire mural -- mueller report and all the underlying evidence. lethat's what we're entto. congress has the right and the duty to look at all of that. we are the only agency that ca hold the president accountable, especially since the department of justice thinks that a sitlepr ident can never be indicted. we are the only agency that can hold the president accountable. we are conllstitutio responsible for that and, to do that job, we need to see the entire report and all the underlying evidence. >> woodruff: as you know he's scrubbing it for grand jury l formation, classified

information, mater says relevant to ongoing investigations. how much of it do you think he's not going to let you see? >> i think he's going to try to not let us see most of it because he's got very broad definitions, but it's not his job to do that. we have to see all of in every analogous situation, whetr with nixon, clinton oi with otheruations, congress and the person of the judiciary committee have seen all the information, the eire report, and we can then decide if there are any necessary redactments to protect sources and methods of intelligence and things of that nature. it is not the job of rne at general, who, is after all, a political appointee of the president who is hired for thjob in order t protect the president personally. we know that this president fired the previous attorney general because he wouldn't protect him pernally, fired the head of the f.b.i. because he said he wouldn't protect him personally, and hired barr afr

barr wrote a 19-page memo saying that a president could never be guilty of obstruction of justice. >> woodruff: right. so h is not a fit -- in a fit position to make sheas judgments as to -- make these judgments as to what can go ot publicly. >> woodruff: are you saying he's not a fair broker -- playing fair in all this? >> he's certainly not fair broker. he gave up any prtense of fairness when he wrote the initial memo saying aen pres couldn't -- being very critical of the entire investigation and saying that -- sing a very wild, far-out legal theory to y a president could never be guilty of obstruction of justice. >> woodruff: to clarify, when you talk about the material he's going to turn over, is this material just for the judiciary committee to see or material that would be make public for everyone. >> no, it's for the judiciary committee to see and to decide what has to be kept private. hopefully, we'll decide that

almost eveberything woul public, but there would be some things that couldn't be public because they involve intelligence sources and methods and various other things. but that's what was done in the past. congressnd the judiciary mmittee was given everything and decided how much of that to make public. >> woodruff:o the decision would come from your committee. so when it comes to the subpoena, you have been authoriz to issue a subpoena, you expect to use it and, if so, when? >> we expect to use it very shortly, if the attorney general does not give us the entire report and the underlying documents. the question is not the timing. he has said he will release the redacted version by the middle of the month which probably means a week from now more or less. that is not the issue. the issue is what is releasesu we'll issue oena to make sure everything is released to the judiciary committee and to e congress. >> woodruff: do you have reason to believe that members

to have the mueller investigative team who have been talking to people, who have been outalking to the press, do have reason to believe that what there is in the report is more damaging to the president than what we know? that's clearly what they aregg ting. are they saying that to members you ever committee, to you? >> well, i don't knoy'if the saying it to the members of our committee, and i haven't talked to them, but we're reading in the press -- you know, thete muelle did not leak at all for 22 months. now they're coming out and - peopand they are reportedly saying to different agencies in the press that the report is much more damning to the president than the attorney general lets on. there's an nbc news report that says the report depicts the trump campaign to a russian intelligence operation. so, clearly, there's a lot of frustration. and, you know, they also apedrently, all, wrote summaries that could be rapidly

released, and they weren't released. instead, the attorney general, an agent to have the administration, a polofical apeanutehe administration, took it upon himself to pscharacterize or per mischaracterize the report in a couple of phrases and, again, we ve the right to see all of that, the american people have the right to see as much as ssible of that. >> woodruff: chairman nadler, it's one thing to issue bpoenas, but it's another thing altogether to get what you're asking forga how much leauthority, how much power ultimately does the congress have to demand at you get this information you want? r.>> very substantial po i mean, you look at the precedence in the nixon tapes case, that was the most privileged material imaginable. i mean, those tapes were the presidentalking to his advisors, they claimed executive privilege, and the court said otecutive privilege cae used as a shield for wrongdoing and order it released and

those tapes were released and despite the claim of executive privilege. so i think we have a very, very sod legal case. again, in every previous case, the congress saw all this material, in addition to which we have the constitutional duty to hold the prsident accountable. nobody else has that duty, and it's impossible to fulfillhat duty without this information, and that's a very strong part of the case. >> so you think you've got the legal upper hand? >> woodruff: and finally, mr. chairman, as you know, republicans and others, the president, are saying democrats ise overreaching, even some democrats have r this question, you know, that if you try to appear so determined to get information that theju department oice is saying shouldn't be made public, shouldn't be shared for a series of wt they say are legitimate reasons, then it looks like thee

democrats rasping. >> well, that is nonsense. the congress has the constitutional responsibility of holding the president accountable and of judging adherence to law. have the duty to uphold the rule of law, to hand down on abuses of power and obstruction of justice that's our job. we have to do that job. demanding thinformation to do that job is not overreaching and, again, ine evry previous situation, congress did its job d they didn't overreach. now, the public -- we will releasto the public as much as possible. we will have to protect certain information for sources and methods and so forth, but congress must see this because if congress doesn't get all the information, the president becomes above the law and subjectso no aountability and that cannot be in this

country. >> woodruf did you say?what >> and that cannot be in this country, neither the president nor anybody else can be abo >> woodruff: representative jerry nadler, chairman of the house judiciary committee, we thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshou the potential economic and personal impacts of shutting down the u.s.-mexico border. mark shields and david brooks break down the week's top sties. and, irish singer hozier on finding hope in uncertain times. this month marks the 25th anniversy of the rwandan genocide. upwards of 800,000 people were killed in just over three months 95,000 children were orphaned. 75% of ethnic tutsis were wiy d out,tremists from the hutu ethnic group.

tuw, three young men impacted by the violence have rned to photography, showing the resilience of the country. special correspondent beth murphy, of the groundtruth daproject, reports from rw >> reporter: 25 years after beinorphaned by the genocide gadi, mussa and bizimana are trekking through rwanda, with the one possession that matters now to them most: their cameras. >> ( translated ): i'm taking pictures of these clothes. women o were killed, and babies who were killed. sometimes people would come, ano if they reized the cloth, they would know this is their baby. >> reporter: they're taking pictures here at one of the nearly 250 memorials that dot the country, and asking questions, trying to understand the unimaginable horror that left nearly one million people ad, including their parents. in april 1994, extremists from the dominant hutu ethnic group began a 100-day killing spree to rid e country of minority tutsis.

the united nations had peacekeeping troops on the ground, but shameful inaction by the international community allowed the slaughter to continue. >> ( translated ): when i think about the people who killed my parents, i think of how they destroyed the relationships i would have had with my parents. >> ( translated ): your photography can help you tell your story to other people. then they can tharn about you. can be a medicine. that can heal someone. >> reporr: this genocide memorial in western rwanda is the one closest to the orphanage where they were raised. many of the pele buried here were killed in the months before the official start of the genocide, when hutu extremists were practicing how to kill on a massive scale. >> ( translated ): how many bodies are here? >> ( translated ): almost 9,000. >> reporter: the killerspef these 9,00le are well- known in this community. one of them is gasen. he was sentenced to 30 years in jail, but released after 15 because he led authorities to thousands of bodies, and he

agreed to seek forgiveness from his victims' families. >> ( translated ): i'm, like, i'm scared. u're the people who killed my parents, and i'm sad to hear you were enjoying killing. >> ( translated ): we had nail- studded clubs called "no mercy.e others had mac >> ( translated ): when you attacked them, what did your ctims do? >> ( translated ): they were crying, begging, "please have mercy." >> ( translated ): we lost our parent's love, we lost their affection. as someone who lived through this, i wanted to know the people who committed genocide. ithow... why... did they d >> reporter: this question, "why?" why would anyone slaughter/kill unarmed men, women and children? there can never be awe satisfactory ato this question. but, the perpetrator a

consistent one. as abdullah tellntthem, governanctioned teachings demonized and dehumanized tutsis, inspiring a nationwide machine of death to hate and kill. >> ( translated ): school lessons taught us, tutsis are evil. they even gave them many nasty names. >> ( translated ): like what? >> ( translated ): they were called cockroaches, snakes... >> ( translated ): the example you gave, calling them cockro were your neighbors. you knew that they were good people. you knew that they were not snakes. what were you told in class and in government teachings, that made you change and believe that was true? >> ( translated ): what made me change is, they said tutsis are kiinvading the country to hutus. so, even though i'd seen them as humabeings, after hearing th tutsis are evil snakes, that

became instilled in my blood. i decided that instead of being killed by a tutsi, i would rather kill. >> reporter: as gadi, mussa andi bimana travel from village to village, they're stunned to learn that every perpetrator they meet knew the woman roz carr. she's the one who became their mother. at the time of the genocide, roz had been living in rwanda over 40 years-- longer than any other foreignein she was runng a flower farm, and helped families in the community by donating medicine and clhing. gasenge even met roz at the start of the genocide, demanding that she hand over tutsis she was hiding in her home. she never did.th an she was forced to evacuate. >> i thought the genocide would be stopped immediately by the u.n. troops, which of course could've stopped it in a week, and saved so many lives. heartbreaking. >> reporter: when roz returned to rwanda, she started the imbabazi orphanage, at the age

of 82, to care for children whose parents were killed in the genocide. this is where gadi, mussa and bizimana became brothers-- and photographers-- thanks to eyars of training by the photo project through th of children. >> in the year 2000, my children, we had a visit from an american from connecticut. his name was david jiranek. he said had an idea of teaching the orphans photography. >> this premiere exhibit is the first exhibit of the children's work. we thought it was important to show everyone in rwanda just what our children are capabley' of, when t given an opportunity. t>> the last thing i thou would change their lives is photography. but it has. >> ( translated ): when i learned photography, that's when i was able to express myself.

i realized that i matter. >> repter: it's a realization they wanother children to experience. to make that happen, gadi, mussa and bizimana have gone from being students of through thedr eyes of chil, to becoming its teachers. photo workshops they around the world are designed to help other children who've suffered from trauma and loss. kids like 12-year-old adrian, who's in foster care in boston. >> this is awesome! >> you like it? >> reporter: in rwanda, the teaching they're doing is giving even more children the ability .o document and tell their own story-- and rwanda something they've been doing for nearly 20 years. and when they look through the lens, they see a humanity that ons lost, now found, especially in the next genera, their generation. >> and it was hard to believe, to be honest, until i met this couple. one is a son of a perpetrator, and the other one is a survivor. om killing each other,iv

fog each other, reuniting with each other, living with each other, now marrying each other. it's a sign of how far things have come. >> reporter: for the pbs newshour, i'm beth murphy in gisenyi, rwanda. >> woodruff: and, beth murphy's story is the subject of a forthcoming documentalled "camera kids." >> woodruff: about 120iles west from the stretch of border president trump visited today th country's busiest land port of entry. tens of thousands of people cross the border near san diego every day, for school, work or shopping. as jean guerrero from pbs station kpbs reports, if the president follows through on threats to close the u.s.-mexico border, it would have a big impact on local residents and

the economy. >> reporter: more than 100,000 people cross the border daily in san diego and tijuana,he cities exchange more than $4 billion a year. president trump earlier this ed closing the border to address the unprecedented number of families applying for asylum in the u. we will have a strong border. we will have closed border. >> reporter: president tmp subsequently backed off giving mexico a year to solve the crisis, or else. threats to close the border are scaring people here. san diego's hotels rely on workers from tijuana. icans who can't afford s diego housing live in tijuana while commuting to work. eiwealthier mexicans send kids to private school in san diego. san egans who can't afford health care in the u.s., go to doctors in tuana, such as bertha herrero, who lives in san diego, but has a dentist in tijuana. >> i came here because it's

cheap, or cheaper, in tijuana than in san diego. orter: herrero is seeing doctor at the first mexican h.m.o. to be licensed as a health ce provider by the state of california. simnsa offers medical and dental services to americans, but in tijuana. f c.e.nk carrillo says dozens of people canceled their appointments this week because trump's threats to close the border made them afraid they'd get stuck in mexico if they crossed the border. >> just the threats al that in itself is creating a problem. people don't want to make the trip. >> reporter: carillo says the h.m.o. employs about 500 physicians, and treats between 1,500 and 2,000 pativery day. he says closing the border would be devastating, not only for his business but for most of the people he knows. >> we're dividing fa by doing this. so really, nobody wins in this situion nobody wins.an >> reporter:iego mayor

kevin faulconer believes in the benefits o >> our relationship with our friends in tijuana, our isrelationship with mexico strength of ours. >> reporter: many local residents live as if the region were a single place. >> san diego and tijuana are really one metropolitan area. even though there's a border between us that separates us geographically and politically and all this stuff, we are one community. >> reporter: lucila conde works at a san diego non-profit that installs solar panels for low- income families. but she has a house in tijuana, and cares for sick relatives there. >> we have commitments and relationships on both sides. i have a family member who is on dialysis in mexico and she requires help and attention. >> reporter: every morning,

dozensf new asylum seekers arrive at the port of entry to put their names on a wait list. it takes wks to be called to speak to a u.s. customs officer. because of the backlog, most are from southern mexico and centra. amer some come from other areas. one woman, who's been waitinla sinc month, is from cuba. f they close the border, don't know what's going to happen to us. >> reporter: she asked for anonymity, because she fears foe life. >> when a human leaves her country, her culture, her habits and roots, it's becaus must. because the saddest thing in the world is be a migrant. people humiliate you. they mistreat you. >> reporter: back at the medical practice, caillo says that as much as he fears for his business, he fearsor asylum- seekers, too. >> the crisis is real. it is real, it's not fabricated. we do have a crisis. e crisis is in central america.

these people are fleeing poverty and violence. so the answer to this problem is go to the root of the problem.pr the root of thlem is there. >> reporter: he says the u.s. should help people in ntral america. but president trump recently announced plans to end all aid me guatemala, honduras and el salvador as puni for failing to stem the tide of migrants. for the pbs newshour, i'm jean guerrero of kpbs news, on the border. >> woodruff: now, to theis analf shields and brooks. that is syndicated columnist mark shields, and "new york times" columnist david boks. hello to both of you. let's talk about the borde , the president this week has been at one point saying he's going to close it, he's angry at mexico and has been angry at the central american countries. now he changed and said, well,

u know, maybe we won't do that but we might do it later. what do you make of his overall approach to what's going on with this crisis at the border? >> well, the fact that the piecs deates so well is the total interdependence of the border, mexico and southern california. that is the pattern throughout. we're talking about the united states' thirlargest trading partner, mexico, $1.5 billion a y in goods and services being traded back and foracth fromh country. what the prsident showed more than anything else was a problem that's nagged his entire administration, he just wasn't informed on this, and his threats were not only unnerving but they redally di the almost impossible, third republicans on the hill beginningi majority

leader mcconnell to say it would be catastrophic to cut off trade. following on the heels, judy, of the president's making th republicans a heatehcare party the election where they suffered the biggest defeat in 100 years, midterm election on e heahcare issue, by a 3-1 margin, americans thought democrats re better on healthcare than republicans, and attacks on john mccain, it was unsettling in any confidence in the president, particularly in his own party.>> oodruff: how do you size ep how he's handled it? >> i give him a cdit. he has been saying there's a crisis on the border for the past six, eight months and i think he's right and i think me of us have downplayed that, but it's clear jay johnson, who was in the obama administration, saying there's a crisis, theop's 4,000 getting detained every day, a backlog of a rmillion cases, all o facilities are tecomp

overrun, so tropical storm clearly a crisis at the the border. the problem with donald trump is, a, no policy process. en he announces a policy, there's nothing bind it, it's just words ming out of his mouth. but the idea the wall is the answer is ridiculous, these are asylum seers, it's irrelevant to the situation. the problems in the countries that hcove be lawless and el salvador is the most dangous peacetime nation the world right now, 95% of the crimes are not being solved or prosecuted, hundreds of millions of dollars in extortion, you have families living in the middle of all these killings, what are they expto do? as long as you have that situation, we're going to have this crisis at the the border because we're all one continent, one people -- maybe two continents but wre one people. you have to fix it at the room. there's no easy way to do that but there's no other answer. >> woodruff: no easy way to do that, mark. are we all acknoedging the

answers don't come easy, but what can be done? >> nobody's eveedr prete there have been serious efforts and public officials in bht parties deserve credit for making an effort to come up wth an immigration policy in this country. there's been no iay to shi this administration at all. democrats have a responsible as well. migration throughout history has been driven by two factors, one, fear, anger, isolation, and the place whe you are, and a hope, the place you're going, which the united states has more often than not represented the latter, and david is right, but the answer to honduras and gutemala is not to cut o aid, it's to make an effort to be creative in trying to bring some sense ofer justice, oreconomic stability to those countries and political safety. that is -- that, to me, is the

first step -- >> woodruff: but -- go ahead. >> woodruff: i was going to say thentpresirgued that hasn't worked. he said we have been giving these countries help and it hasn't worked. >> that's not true. in the first place, it's important to distinguish between two kinds of people who are coming here, one are economically motivated, they want jobs here, and, frankly, american efforts across several aministrations have do great job at reducing the job of economic people who come here, but the flow of mexican workers who come to this country is down. we have a situation where more latinos were leaving than coming and that's because we had some role in helping the mexican economy becoming helthy. what we're seeing now is fear-driven. think of people leang syria for lebanon. it's a lit moral like that than the economic immobility. these people are leaving in disparate straits because they have no other choice and this heir asylum seekers. so these are two difrent things, and the idea our aid has

not done much tore that, i wsaod we haven't even tried. >> and the backlog that david speaks of is, in fact, that pekile see asylum. i mean, it's uprooting the entire famil i thnot the traditional male leaving to make money to send it home, to return home what money. >> woodruff: change of subject, the mueller report. daad, i don't know if you rd but congressman jerry nadler, chairman of the judiciary committee was on the program. he saiutright he expects the attorney general should givess conghe fuel mueller report, almost 400 pages of it, but went on to say he doek sn't the attorney general has been a fair broker in this for a number of reasons. e ects to get less than that, but we're going to see subpoenas. where do you see this process goin >> i think that's an error, a mistake. i think one of the things that's been well established with a few bad exceptions is when you release a port like this you

don't release the grand jury information and sources and methods. barr told uss he'eaning that out and will release the rest. >> woodruff: nay says it's just going to the committee and won't be released to the public. >> fit goes to the committee, it will go to the public. m view, that's a much more dangerous option. so, to me, maybe he's right about barr, maybe barr is not an honest broker here, we know. i think he's handled it reasonably well. but at least lebarr issue te next piece to have the report he'll issue, let's take a look and see what we think then. but the idea of leaking out the whole report, which i think would be inevitable, seems to me a miscarriage of jutice. >> woodruff: what do you think to have the nadler approach, the democrats' approach? >> i think two factors. first of all, i think attorney general bargave the president a green light,nd i think that nas obviously set off a sense of

frustration andger on the part of people who worked on the mueller group, as wl as democrats, in particular. i think the prsident they have gone too far with it. what i worry about with chairman nadler is anody with a sense of history in this town, in 1998, one of the reasons that the effort against blintsen failed was because of the excessive partisanship of newt gingrich and people like that and ahe republican dership and it became to be seen as a partisan dive against him. contrast that, judy, with howard baker, sam irvin, and petrder o, chairman of the house judiciar time of watergate when they all rose above any petty i partisanship. n't think it ought to be seen as a democratic hunt. i do think it's coming, and i thinthat -- >> woodruff: the full report? i think the full report will

eventually g out, but i think bob mueller will testifyand i think the attorney general said e 's going to testify as well. i would like to s play out before we go to defcon one. >> woodruff: but yog're say it will take several steps? >> i think it will. i think the pressure is buildin on attorney general barr because he knows -- his summary of the mueller report es not meet with the satfaction or professional passage on the part of the people who worked on the mueller. i likely think that's the problem. >> it's possible to believe two things at once, that thisco investigatioucted by honest brokers found no evidence of collusion and not suftfici evidence of obstruction, but there's a lot more in the report that will make the trump administration look bad, i thin wend both those things to be true in the fullness of time.

>> woodruff: former vice president joe biden, mark, subject this week of a number of complaints from women who say he was in their personal space, they felt uncomfortable with the way he touched them, held their shoulders, kissed the back to have the top of their heads. he spoke about it, tweeted about it the other day, he said i hean you, it going to be doing this anymore. today he had a little joke out it at a speed limit. afterwards, he came out and said, i hear you, my behavior is changing. how is he handling this? how is it going to affect his race for president, which we assume he's making? >> he's not handling it well. 47 years in washington, joe biden has been the epitome of the admirable father and husband. there's never been, to the best of my knowledge, a whisperer i joe n as a sexual predator, as a player, somebody who is stepping out, chasing skirts or anything of the sort. joe biden is a politician from

the era of press the flesh, of being in touch with people of both genders, and i think hispo nts are using this, quite frankly, and joe hafos, unately for his sake, played into their hand as an tndication or metaphor that he's out of touch, the belongs to era.ferent it was once said the test of any leader is man kn and understand the times he lives and himself. joe biden, i think, knows himself very well, unfortunately he thinks it's 1959. donald trump, we shod in 2016 he understands the times well, unfortunately he thinks he's brad pitt. the idea donald trump could use sexual predatorring as an issue against joe biden shows a lack of embarrassment and total shamelessness on the president's part. >> when i started covering congress, i was always stunned

by hu much the members ld touch me and just put their arms around my shoulders and talk to me. i was uncomfortable to me because i come from a different generation and social class, i don't come from scranton. but eventually i saw it as a ion and respect and i liked it when someone put their hands on my shoulders because they were really trying to meet me as a person. s it wasn't xual thing, it was a connection thing. i have been around joe biden a lot. i think he's a very, very admirable man, and does he ?onduct himself inays where mores have chang maybe. but they're trying to impute his character and insult the dignity and intention with which he goes about his life and i think it'su completeair. he may touch where people in different classes and mores don't touch and maybe you should be more respectful of that with others, but to think that's a

sign he's less than perct character is completely wrong and unfair. >> woodruff: mores are changes. id>> democrats have to de whether they will nominate somebody who will beat donald trump in 2020 and be effective, honorable. t-- president who will res confidence, or get int ao contest about who is the most woke, that's a choice they will be on a sued side pact. >> woodruff: mark shields, david brooks, thank you both. >> woodruff: now, finding hope in uncertain times in song. the singer-songwriter hozier is out with his second album, tha debuted at number one on the charts last month. jeffrey brown caught up with the irish musician in orlando

recently, for our ongoing arts and culture series, "canvas."he ♪ allear, and the fire of the end of the world ♪ >> brown: on his new album, "wasteland baby!" hozier evokes scenes of the apocalypse. ♪ ♪ he calls them "love songs for the end of the world." but they come wrapped in a velvet baritone, and a sense of humor. >> it's not about delivering certainly bad news, but even just engaging with those anxieties and engaging with them honestly, and just laying it out there, and that can be-- can be done in a fun way. i'd be a bad irish man if i wasn't able to pull some fun out of that. ( ♪ "take me to church" )ho >> brown: er-- his full name is andrew hozier-byrne-- was 23, and writing songs in his parents' attic, when he pennedth the on catapulted him from

obscurity to fame in 2013.o ♪ take meurch i'll worship like a dog ♪ at the shrine of your lies i'll tell you my sins and ♪ you can sharpen your knife offer me that deathless death ♪ good god let meive you my life ♪ >> brown: "take me to churchis searing criticism of the catholic church-- ♪ amen amen ♪ >> brown: --with a music video depicting and denouncing anti- gay violence-- not the usual stuff of top 40 hits. but it topped the charts in a dozen countries, a was nominated for song of the year at the grammys. ( ♪ "nina cried power" ) >> brown: his new album again speaks to current events, opening with the rousing "nina cried power," featuring an icon of soul, mavis staples... ♪ nina cried power billie cried power ♪ mavis cried power >> brown: --and paying tribute to a long list of singers, including nina simone, who used their voices to demand justice.♪ nd i could cry power power ♪ power power >> 2016 was just an interesting time. you had a kind of an upswing of

rhetoric, which was, both in civil discourse and in political discourse, that was, that playeo not the best parts of us at and i just wanted to write something that was decidedly hopeful, that lookedspirit of kind of solidarity, and looked to also a legacy of solidarity. p we can call test music if you wanted to. i just, i wasn't hearing a huge amount of it in the kind oas music that i that i was making. >> brown: born in county wicklow, ireland, hozier grew up with american blues and soul sic. >> my dad was a gig musician. just a live kind of gigging musician, really, full time. i remember hearing, like, soul music for the first time. i was always drawn to voices. sii was always, and i was er before i could play anything else. i had fallen in love with the voice of people like nmone and billie holiday. and voices like howlin wolf and muddy waters. to me, that was music that was that was music for men and women. eand i think my peers wer listening to what i felt was music for boysnd girls. that's just how i felt about it. it makes everything else seem trivial. >> brown: soon, was following in his father's footsteps. >> the first band i was in, when i was 15 years old, covering t.ul music; covering booke and the m.g.s; playing, like, community has or, like, back

gardens, like, you know, with local punk kids. >> brown: and you were covering booker t... >> yeah, we were an odd sight. ♪ ♪ >> brown: fast forward to fast fame-- but it was five years before he felt ready to put out a second album.e which this self-described "news junkie" poured out his anxieties about the state of the world in his own country and abroad on songs likehe title ack, "wasteland, baby!" but remember-- it's still a love song. ♪ wasteland baby, i'm in love i'm in love with you ♪ >> the exclamation mark-- i think is the, is the wry smile, there's a lot of tongue in cheek to it, you know.th >> browne's doom and gloom, but with a wry smile. >> i think so. >> brown: how do youe mix? >> i do think it's a hopeful record.

i think it'seven though it's, a lot of the context is a bit of doom and gloom, i think it's always looking for alwaysth looking fokind of silver lining, you know. it's just, just the warmth, the capacityhat we all still have for warmth, even in the worst scenario. >> brown: and at a time when artists churn out new musiat breakneck speed, and celebrity can come-- and go-- quickly, hozier is determined to mo at his own pace. >> i think for me, i feel like a bit of a dinosr sometimes. sit down, sit down, with it-- with a guitar, and going away and writing music and then coming back and saying look what i've done. the challenge is to make sure that your-- that you have, hopefully, you have something that's worth saying. if people want to hear what people feel that is worth-- is worth saying, ten, 20 years, 30 years down the line and, you know, that's, that's really the challenge, is having a career and, growing with your music and having an audience at there come that come with you. ♪ sweet music playing in the dark ♪ >> brown: for the pbs newshour,w

i'm jeffrey in orlando, florida. ♪ i wouldn't know where to start sweet music playing in the dark ♪ be still my foolish heartn' ruin this on me ♪ >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, an iconic and that is the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you, and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> kevin. >> kevin! >> kevin? >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> bnsf railway. >> consumer cellular. >> babbel. a language program that teachesn h, french, italian, german, and more.

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hello, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour & co." here's what'soming up. >> thank you to my vy good friend rupert murdoch.er s only one rupert that we know. >> a deep dive into rupert murdo och's empire of influenc a "new york times" investigation ach. apre the media mogul's plus, ng america's best loved novel for broadway, my conversation with aar sorkin andeff daniels about their take on "to kill a mockingbird" and why it remains so relevant today. and. the public is thoroughly fed up, whether they were pro or antibrexit.